The Apparatus

The UK is home to a ton of grind acts. What choices did you make to ensure your band stands out?

SMITH: I suppose the way in which we write and structure our riffs and songs is the main way we try to ensure we stand out. The idea of the band has always been to create unique songs that we all enjoy listening to and playing, but without aligning oursleves too closely to any specific sub-genre or style of metal. That gives us the freedom to write music that combines aspects of all our influences, but at the same time gives us a focus of trying to make songs that are challenging to play and unique in sound but still coherent in themselves. The other choice I suppose is that we try to avoid the overt gore/death/horror presentation and content that a lot of metal contains.

MATT: I think Reth stands out from other grind acts because it isn't really grind! Maybe as far as the vocal style, it is, but instrumentally we share more in common with death metal. Since Reese joined the vocals have gone more death metal-ly too. Also, as all members of the band have a wide taste in music means we draw influence from a pretty diverse mix of styles. I don’t think any of this was a conscious choice though. We just play what we’d like to hear.

JIM: To be honest, I’m not sure it was ever a conscious decision to try to make the band stand out. We’ve always tried to make music that we’ve enjoyed playing, and there’s always been an eclectic mix of people in the band throughout the years; from jazz musicians, folk guitarists and ambient noise merchants, right through to grind men, death-metal types and black metal peddlers.
It’s not always been easy to keep everyone happy, and there’ve been loads of member changes over the years. But each former member has left a bit of a legacy, a bit of a sound, that has continued to run, like a thin mineral seam, through the bedrock of the band. Each new member has brought a new theme, or a new take on the Reth sound, and so the whole thing evolves.
Where we’re at now is wanting to make music that’s technical, off-kilter and silly, but which is full of hooks to drag people in. Me and Smith, the two remaining original band members, have always wanted to write catchy songs, and this is something that still pervades the band ethos today. We want to write things that we would want to listen to, not simply that we want to play.
I think when you consciously try to move away from straight up grind into something a little different, you can risk the sound becoming unfocused. However, we’ve always tried to leave the writing to one or two people and then build up our individual parts around it. I think this gives us a more focussed sound. For this album ('Precursors to Extinction) almost all the song-writing fell to Smith, the drummer. For the next album it’s looking like being mainly me and Paul, the bassist. It also helps that this is what comes naturally to us – there was no conscious decision or line in the sand to make us go down this route, this is just who we are.

PAUL: I think though, having that been said, there is a semi-conscious part of us that wants to write things slightly different. A lot of the more technical or weird or 'difficult' riffs or sections started off a lot simpler, but we can't resist throwing in 'tricks'. Warping the basic ideas just to definitely make sure we're not just going to sound like any other band that write a lot of riffs into songs. I'm not sure it's particularly to 'stand out' so that we get noticed for being odd or different, but maybe that's how it's worked out. It's as much to make the songs as interesting as possible for us, as progressive minded people, to want to play them hundreds or thousands of times at practice, gigs and whilst recording. I'm enjoying the current stage of writing, me and Jim mainly putting the basics of the songs and riffs together, before presenting them to the rest of the band to have sections further mutated, contorted, warped, played with and pieced together properly. I deliberately didn't write any songs or riffs for Reth for about 2 years, so that I could fully get inside the previously made songs, get into the style, get my music writing head into the same place as, especially, Smith and Jim. I've done plenty of technical and fast projects in the previous 14 years of playing in bands, but each one has been a completely different entity, so I decided to fully let my brain get to grips with it. I feel the new songs that are being scribed totally fit in to the already laid foundation of the Reth sound, but are different enough again to be a progression forward. I can't wait to hear how the rest of the next CD and future ones after that come out, as there are no plans to put our feet on the brakes just yet.

REESE: Also, being ourselves I suppose, we work together in a way where everyone gets to mould what it sounds like - I see it as a pretty organic and straight forward affair, I probably can't explain it as well as the other guys can. I think everyone brings something different to the equation and there is something fundamentally accessible about Reth in a strange kind of way. I don't think I can put my finger exactly on it but from all the gigs we have been playing and the reviews we are getting back I am seeing really positive responses from all different types of people. Something about what we are doing is really connecting with people and can't necessarily be explained.

2. What musical influences from both your local scene and internationally can you accredit to your style? If that question is too broad, what made Reth come together in the first place?

 SMITH: We all have wide and varied influences, but generally speaking our initial influences came from stuff like Carcass (Symphonies/Necroticism), Morbid Angel, Cryptopsy (Whisper Supremacy), Discordance Axis, Cephalic Carnage, and later stuff like Human Remains, Kalibas, Rune, Gorguts (Obscura), Ion Dissonance. Nowadays things are a bit different; I listen to a lot of powerviolence/old school grind and sludge/doom, Paul listens to all sorts of different stuff, Matt likes mainly black metal, Reese enjoys the more technical and harsh stuff, and Jim doesn't really bother with much 'extreme' stuff, he's dead into acoustic singer/songwriter and folk stuff.

JIM: That’s definitely a toughie. For my part, my influences outside the local scene come mainly from acoustic and experimental music. The link between these and the sound of the band is tenuous at best. I suppose me wanting to sling in slam riffs and ridiculous sounding widdly bits stems from my love of things that are catchy but still critically viable as worthwhile artistic expression. People like Richard Thompson, Matt Ward, Tom Waits etc on the folk and acoustic side, and DJ Shadow, Hype, earlier Asian Dub Foundation, Le Rhythm Digital etc for the dance and drum and bass.
I don’t listen to a lot of metal or grind on CD, record or MP3, but I love going to local gigs and watching all the silly things the burgeoning Leeds scene has to offer. There are truly some of the most exciting grind, tech and metal bands currently on offer playing the local scene at the moment, so I guess my grind and metal influences come directly, and indirectly, from these bands: bands such as The Afternoon Gentlemen, Executive Distraction Tasks, the guy who recorded us’ (Rob Hobson) slam side projects, and also being involved with things like Smith’s Administrator Sessions for example. Also bands no longer with us, such as Narcosis, have a big influence on both the sound and the carefree attitude of the scene at the moment.
This whole thing sounds quite incestuous, with band members being in multiple projects, and all these having an influence on the others. I guess it is, but by influencing each other and being a little insular, the scene’s coming up with a bit of a different sound to most other places, so this “evolution through geographical separation and mutation” is a positive thing I think.
With regard to why Reth came together in the first place, I think it was just that a couple of mates wanted to play some tunes and have a laugh together. I think the reason it’s kept going for so long is that that initial aim has never altered.

MATT: To be honest, I'm not all that much of a fan of technical music or grind. From the local scene I always enjoyed watching Narcosis. A real shame they’re not around anymore.

PAUL: My own personal influences, bandwise, are Meshuggah, Necrophagist, Behold The Arctopus, Emperor, Coalesce, Primus, Gorguts, Executive Distraction Tasks, Braindrill, Beneath The Massacre. These are probably the main bands that I've heard at certain junctions of my life that have had the most affect and pushed my own playing and ideas. Every time I see a band/musician that does something I've never seen or heard before, or is beyond what I can play, it makes me realise how much is possible and makes me strive a little harder. I joined Reth mid-2005 and they've definitely helped me expand my knowledge and fit in completely with where I want my own personal musical progression to be. I was a fan of them before I joined to be honest, so am glad to be a part of their more recent step up of technicality and craziness.

REESE: I joined Reth in June 2007 having met them a couple of times when playing gigs with my old band Microsleeper. We got on pretty well and when the position for vocalist popped up I jumped at it ...that's pretty much it.
I was influenced by loads of stuff - mainly by the fact I wanted to express myself in some way another having always been interested in art and music, and I just kind of fell into doing vocals as I was always interested in the heavier and darker side of music.

3. Early Grindcore's manifesto was mostly speed and attitude, and even earlier punk hated progressive rock music. What makes technicality and "musicianship" so accepted in Grindcore today?

PAUL: I think it's just the extremity factor to be honest. Grindcore etc was always about pushing the extremes, of speed, of intensity, of absolute head bashing harshness, but there's only so far it can be taken within the realms of the punk influenced side of it. To me, making it overtly technical seems the logical step forward.

SMITH: Well for us technicality and musicianship is accepted and important because it's essential to our attempts to develop a unique sound and to progress what can be done with death/grind/metal template without repeating too much of what earlier bands have done. It's also important because constantly pushing ourselves as musicians is part of what makes playing such good fun and keeps us motivated to carry on.

REESE: I think the two go hand in hand really, however, just cos you may be 'technically' shit hot doesn't meant you could write a good song or a memorable riff ...but it does help. I think at the moment people are trying to push grindcore to its extreme and with that you are gonna need to some technical ability to play it fast, well, and to take it as far as your abilities will let you. The punk ethos definitely exists still in some grind bands today but you have to put it into context with popular music and other forms of heavy music ... as long as it remains the bastard child - grind will retain the punk spirit.

MATT: You’re asking the wrong people about "musicianship"!

PAUL: Oo scathing! That hurts! Heh. I think we all do a pretty good job to be fair.

JIM: I’m not really an authority on early grindcore or punk. You definitely still see the anti-tech attitude about though, so it’s alive and kicking. From a semi-outsider’s standpoint, I just figure that as grind became more popular, and a wider audience became interested in the scene, chock-full of people who weren’t so keyed up on the tenets of any unwritten grind-rules, the old-school types simply became outnumbered. They definitely still exist, it’s just that there are enough other people willing to accept tech within grindcore to make it a viable sub-genre.

4. How difficult was it getting signed to a label? The market is insanely competitive and very risky.

SMITH: I don't really know.

JIM: Really bloody difficult, ha ha. It took six member changes and eight years; a lot of money on getting to gigs, producing CDs, making t-shirts and the like; lots of awesome reviews; blood, sweat, tears, anger and disappointment. Oh, and a massive amount of luck. Kudos to Paul for all the really hard work he does on getting us noticed and getting us gigs. I would honestly not have the first clue where to start.

PAUL: Once we'd actually completed this CD and got it around the place, it wasn't too difficult. Anticulture have taken an interest in Reth for a while now, and I think after 3 months of the CD being out and they saw we were willing to push things, get our name around, play gigs wherever we can get to, generally whore ourselves around, they decided that we were a valuable asset to their label. Previous to that though, there's been a lot of work, a lot of demo CDs sent around, I myself got sent 3 of the demos for review on the Raw Nerve webzine that I run before joining Reth, so the band has always been willing to push things to a degree. After 8 years of being together, the sound, style and people in the band themselves are finally in the right stage of being to take this next step up. At the end of the day, it's not the be all and end all, being signed, but, I feel we'd almost reached the furthest point we could without help from an established label, so the timing was right. Regarding things being competitive and risky, well, we're up for covering all bases to make sure we make the most of it. Writing songs that stand up to our own rather high standards and requirements. Playing gigs as much as we can whilst still being all in full-time employment or at university. Spreading the word wherever we can, all the online promotions on forums, Myspace, Facebook, other download and profile sites, mail outs, texting people constantly about the gigs. Printing out flyers about the band and spreading them everywhere. Chasing up local newspapers and radio stations. Messaging people all the time, actually taking time out to make strong connections with people, not for personal gain or anything, just because we want to. What's the point in doing all of this if we don't end up making lots of good friends and getting to loads of cool places?! We're pretty much doing everything and anything we can to keep the name out there. At least we'll know we've done our best where all that is concerned.

REESE: All I know is we pushed the cd like bastards on reviewers, magazines, labels, anyone we thought who would like it basically. Paul (bass) really did all the hard work on that side of things.

JIM: We’re really pleased that this brilliant situation has finally happened for us, and we’re going to try to take full advantage of the opportunity. This is not the beginning of the end; it is only the end of the beginning!

5. How long has the band been around, and what did earlier incarnations of Reth sound like?

REESE: I would have been in Reth a year in June 2008 so I'll leave the other guys to answer that one.

SMITH: Reth's been going for 7 years. At first we didn't really have a style because we couldn't really play. For a couple of years we played pretty basic UK style metallic hardcore (like Stampin Ground and Knuckledust rip-offs etc). Then we started to move towards a more fully-fledged death metal/grind sound around 2003/04 with the Toxocara EP. Basically with each year that goes by our tastes all keep getting wider and more extreme, and the band's sound inevitably mirrors that.

JIM: We’ve been around since early August 2000, so just under eight years. In the first year or so we went through a load of changes, including stoner rock, nu-metal, borderline rap-metal and thrash, before settling on hardcore. We were still a hardcore band by 2002 but were starting to bring in elements of death-metal, doom and pure grind. By 2003 things were starting to get widdly and fast. We dropped the hardcore and doom elements and began to focus more on technical death-metal and grind. By 2005 the songs which appear on the album were beginning to take shape. We slowed down on writing for a little while and focussed on getting the songs tighter and faster. A few new bits were added and a couple of new songs were written making up a set list which remained pretty much solid for about a year, from mid-2006 to mid-2007. To all intents and purposes it is this set list which appears on the CD. Since recording the CD, three new songs have been written for the second album while one older one which didn’t appear on the current CD is also ready. These all fit into a new direction we’re taking, which is to focus more on daft speed and technicality, whilst also bringing elements of sludge, doom and slam back into the mix.

PAUL: I went to see Reth about half a dozen times and played with them a few more times whilst in other bands (Tangaroa and Narcosis) over the years before joining them in 2005. It's been interesting to see how things have taken shape over the years, from their earlier, more direct, simplistic, riffy ways, to what it is now. Even in the early days though you could see the promise and the intention to do something either a little different, or generally pretty harsh. Where it's at now is a fantastic stage. I think the song writing side of Reth has always been very much the fundamental part of their uniqueness, no matter what mash up of styles and weirdness they have, in the past, and current throw into the blender, it always comes out sounding like a well writtten Reth song, something we are very proud of.

6. What is the significance behind the band name?

SMITH: Jim made it up. 'Bongereth' or African King. You decide.

JIM: This is a contentious issue. The name originally had a colon in the middle to denote that the Re: meant “regarding,” while the T and H were capitalized to suggest that they were an abbreviation. Granted, this should technically have been T.H. rather than just TH, but things like PLC get away without the full stops, so I think that a modern take on abbreviations bears us out on that point, even if we weren’t technically grammatically correct. Now this is where things get contentious and I normally get edited. It stood for Regarding the Herb, because when you’re sixteen, drugs are cool and smoking weed makes you look hard. We’ve since tried to distance ourselves from this connotation as we’re trying to be a serious band and not just a bunch of pot smoking jokers. Alas, we’re not always very successful in this endeavor, though I can safely say that I’m not a pot smoking joker – I’m just a drunk joker.

PAUL: I think it's because it rhymes with Death, and talking about death in extreme music is cool! 

REESE: the new songs have loads of personality, they are really diverse but flow really well. They are harsher, faster, groovier, more technical, slower ...all the good stuff basically. I've been wrapping my own vocals round all of these new songs and they are fucking hard work, really full on, they require a lot of intelligent breathing on my behalf so I don't pass out or get crushing pressure headaches from oxygen starvation. I'm really excited about it obviously ...It's a logical step from 'Precursors'.

JIM: We currently have four songs which follow the new direction we’re taking. This focuses more on daft speed and technicality, whilst also bringing elements of sludge, doom and slam back into the mix. The next album should be ready early next year hopefully. It should be very silly indeed.

PAUL: The intention is to up the ante rather than water it down now we've got to this stage. We're all really happy with how the first few songs of the next CD have taken shape, definitely things are getting even harsher, weirder, faster, sillier, challenging, but still retaining the initial Reth way, as there are still plenty of hooks, 'big' riffs and the like. The next CD is going to be called 'The Triumph of Death', and is going to be a bit longer than 'Precursors...', probably 8 or 9 actual songs and a couple more ambient/interludes. It's going to be damn ridiculous though. It's good that we have full backing from Anticulture to progress how we like though, they're confident and trust us, which is fantastic. We'd never have any intentions to water anything down, and it's great to know that the label isn't going to interfere in the writing processes.

SMITH: Yeah. Like I said, we seem to keep getting more technical, extreme, and varied with each new song-cycle. The new stuff isn't miles away from the 'Precursors...' material, but its definitely a bit more hectic and all over the place in parts. I think we're managing to avoid pastiche though.

8. While listening to the album, I sensed a very socially-conscious approach to the music and lyrics. What are some themes Reth is going for? How important is language in keeping a society together?

SMITH: Reth has never intended to be an overtly 'political' band, the lyrics are just there for people who want to go into the subject matter, rather than pushing the messages to the front we always wanted the music to be the central aspect of the band. But that said, we've always wanted the lyrics to actually convey something concrete, rather than just using vague phrases that sound good together, or doing the whole death/horror/violence themed stuff which I think is a bit pointless.

REESE: With regards to the older stuff Jim and Smith were the lyric machines - so I couldn't really comment, but the general theme is in the name 'Precursors...' it's just about recognising the signposts that we all are going to be pretty fucked basically and it's the result of the society and culture we grow up in. The new lyrics are based upon the 'Triumph of Death' by Pieter Bruegel, the 'Dance of Death' or the 'Danse Macabre' and the fact that in death all fleeting social and class divisions are eliminated and we are all the same in the respect that we are mortal. There also some more loose personal themes at the moment being developed with regards to reflection and regret, it is still work in progress at the moment but I feel it follows on nicely from 'Precursors…'.

JIM: You’d be right in your assumption that a lot of our themes and lyrics are politically motivated. Smith’s the best person to ask about this sort of thing, as the concept for the first album is very much his thesis really. My take on the overarching theme is that we’re talking about the waste based culture we find ourselves part of, where everything is disposable. In a world where crisps packets, toothbrushes, razors, clothes, CDs etc etc ad nauseum are all disposable and produce huge amounts of waste, people become disposable too – you just get desensitized to it. Our own lives and our time become disposable; people waste their lives stagnating, sitting in a dead end job or on the dole, never doing anything with themselves. Pop stars are disposable; bands are disposable; soldiers are disposable; anyone is disposable, so long as you don’t have to get to know them.
We find ourselves in a faceless society where people don’t know their next door neighbour from some guy three towns over. This helps people to dehumanize their fellow man. It’s so much easier to rob, mug, beat or kill a faceless image than a human being. It’s so much easier to create a faceless image if you don’t know the person you’re doing it to. A total lack of social cohesion and the destruction of community is a mask for people to hide behind – your anonymity means you can hide behind the mask of your own face. The disposable nature of society also creates an “I want” culture where people think that they always need the next big thing. In a world where inequality between the rich and the poor becomes ever more apparent, people become frustrated with their lot and either resort to senseless violence, or try to change their lot by theft or other illegal activities. In a society where this is the norm it’s hardly surprising that no-one bats an eyelid that a superpower would go to war to secure an oil supply: the biggest bully in the playground exerting its rights. It’s just what they would have done given half a chance. I certainly agree that language is a social cohesive; people who speak the same language naturally gravitate to one another. However, in a society where a man’s home is his castle, fully fitted with moat, barricaded doors and bars on the windows, language doesn’t get a look in as a social cohesive. It is instead doled out in prescribed and controlled, individual, disposable portions by the disposable box sitting in the corner.

PAUL: We also want people to know how much Jim talks! And how much we like drinking tea. Tea is very important. Not as important as conversing with others, but not far off! As for the question, I occasionally pop up with words for some of the newer songs. Reese lets us see lyrics he's working on, and I add a few bits. I wrote lyrics for one of the songs. I'd love to write a lot more, but it should be down to Reese, who writes some great words.

MATT: Without a common language it would be difficult to hold a society together.

9. Reth seems borderline apocalyptic. Do you even want society to stay together? Where do you see change happening, if at all? How does this differentiate between helpful change and negative change?

MATT: Well if current trends continue, society is almost certainly heading for collapse. Of course it’s easy to prophecise the end of the world, as people always have, but the current system is completely unsustainable. A lot of the world is already grossly overpopulated and we rely far too heavily on oil-derived chemicals for energy and food production. I don’t think where we are today is a particularly enjoyable or healthy place to be, and in that respect I’d like to see things change.

REESE: I don't see change happening anytime soon, it doesn't feel like anyone is pushing for it as we are too comfortable the way we are ...seems we would rather roll on regardless and opulent!

JIM: There is some apocalyptic stuff in there, but it doesn’t mean that we necessarily want an end to society as we know it, just that we can see things heading that way. The change seems to me to one of loss of community over the last fifty or so years. This could be blamed on ease of transport and in-home entertainment, but I think mainly it’s just human nature to try to destroy ourselves: it’s simply that the way society is today allows a lot of scope for that inherent defect to manifest itself.

SMITH: What we want is immaterial. Definitionally, society must and always will stay together as long as people exist. But when you look at complex societies like ours, you see many different cross-cutting cleavages and tensions that have clearly fragmented our society in various ways. The antagonism at the forefront of everyone's minds at the moment seems to be the ideological/religious conflict between East and West and the many smaller conflicts within that, but this is just one example. As for change, change is happening all the time. We simply differentiate positive and negative change on an individual level, based on subjective convictions and opinions. Ultimately I think that's why society is slowly pulling itself apart; the more fractured our social and cultural identities become, the more pluralist society gives us justifications for fighting against one another and dividing further.

PAUL: To say that I hate most people is a bit of a sweeping generalization, but I have to admit that I'm not a fan of the human race. I think it's a disgusting plague that has ruined all the goods things it has going for it, which is a huge shame considering how 'advanced' it supposedly is. I like the people I know, those I can put a name to, but the collective 'everyone else' can basically disappear, and i wouldn't bat an eyelid. There are too many idiots, too many people that don't deserve their time in this world. I feel lucky to be alive (sometimes), and I'd like to do something. Whatever it is. My talents lay mostly within music, so this is what I need to do, but there are so many people out there with nothing to give, nothing to contribute, nothing but taking, wasting resources, wasting the time of everyone they come into contact with. I think the main problems with the world is over-population, far too many people for the amount of space and resource there is available, of course greed/money is a major factor too. But then, how could things exist in its current state without? It's hard to say when/where/how change will come. Personally I don't think it will, ever. I think for all the good that there is out there, with people wanting to 'make a difference' with the environment and making people good and all that, there are too many people who are too rich, don't care, think it's already too late, have given up, or are too oblivious and ignorant to bother. This planet is pretty much going to implode at some point. If I was watching from elsewhere, I doubt I'd be surprised or upset really. It's a shame there isn't a re-set button to be honest. I like the statement 'Reth seems borderline apocalyptic.' I like the fact that someone can garner that from the sounds, as we're trying to make it all sound as real and intense as possible.

10. What is your band's perspective on the state of affairs in the US, and how does that contribute to your identities as citizens of the UK?

MATT: The state of affairs in the US is much the same as here, only perhaps with a more advanced state of cultural decadence. I don’t hold my UK citizenship all that dearly to begin with, so anything happening in the US will not change this. I find it strange that people never question the nature of their identities – what are often arbitrary labels imposed by others, solely for their benefit.

SMITH: Personally, I see the US as moving more and more towards being a religious state controlled by strong groups of pragmatists with economically vested interests. The need for strong ideologies has been largely displaced by populist politics. I feel ashamed of my identity as a UK citizen because our government has aligned the UK with US foreign policy, which is a policy that myself and many UK citizens fundamentally disagree with. The fact that British soldiers are fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq in support of a US-led war based on a desire for economic and theological ascendancy makes me very uncomfortable. At the moment the 'War on Terror' is being used as a vehicle to remove certain basic human-rights in the UK, and I can't imagine that many people are happy for example with the idea that they can now be detained in custody for up to 42 days if the police decide they are a 'terror suspect'.

JIM: In my opinion the US is a very sick and dysfunctional society, more greatly affected by the same problems that are affecting ours. The delusional myth of celebrity, designed to detract from the morbid realities of every day life, has gone so far there that they’ve voted the Terminator as a governor and a circus monkey as the President. This furthers the notion of the insipid nature of our disposable society, that a man should be voted into office for the spurious, blinkered and short term reason that “I know him, he’s that guy from that film.” Alas, this is something quickly being picked up here in the UK. In so far as this affects my identity as a UK citizen, it makes me a little ashamed.

PAUL: I'll be honest, I know very little about politics. I just can't get myself motivated to take it all in. All I know is that whoever is and has been running the show out there has never been clever even to have such power. Considering that most of the rest of the world bows to whatever America wants, demands, says, it would take someone with more nouse, intellect and peaceful nature than has ever been before to truly make a difference. I doubt that time will ever come. It's the same over here really, whoever is in charge of the UK, they're going to make a mess and make things worse for the majority of people.
There's some amazing music coming from the USA though, so it's not ALL bad! ;-)

REESE: It seems like a bit of a joke basically - I don't dislike American people or anything, it's the same story over here. I've never felt like a proper UK citizen ... it's strange. In theory I can up and leave at any moment if I wanted and move to somewhere in Europe. I identify with my surroundings, family, friends if that makes me a UK citizen then I suppose I'm a UK citizen ...surrounded by dickheads.

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